Genoa Track

Moon Shadow · Guest

I am planning to replace the genoa sheet tracks with low profile Harken tracks and install a car with controls led aft to improve sale control. The old system of moving the cars is not satisfactory. I do not know how the old track is attached? Is it screwed down or through bolted? I changed my main sheet traveller with a new Harken system quite successfully but I wonder if someone who has done this before can shed some light.
Moon Shadow is a 38MKII.
Glen

hcadmin · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject:

I assume you mean the stays'l track forward of the mast? I believe ours are bolted in with the the nuts bedded into the deck. I found other pieces of hardware in are deck done this way too.
1986 HC 38T

warmrain · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject:

Moonshadow,

Tell us more. These are the tracks on the top of the cap rail, right?!

They can be difficult. Are these the tracks you're thinking of replacing?

Moon Shadow · Guest

I am refering to the tracks on top of the cap rail. I notice that every second fasteners has been changed from original on the SB side. No idea why but it has my wondering. I may have to remove some of the fasteners to get an idea what I'm up against but most people I asked were certain the fasteners were through bolted. That would be a real pain! These opinions came from non HC owners so they may not be valid. Anyone else tackled this job and can shed a little light?
Glen Wilson HC38 MKII

warmrain · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:10 am Post subject:

If it is like other Hans Christians (which it may not be as they were built in a variety of yards (e.g. 33 and 48 in the Hansa yard) and I do not know where the the 38 MK II was built) they are through bolted. It can be a source of trouble and frustration.

The 38Ts particularly have trouble wit them and there is a lot of experience here with how do deal with those. Find out what yard yours was built in and if it is the same as the 38T then leverage that information in the archives.

In our case the nuts are tack welded to fender washers and those fender washers are snipped two places on the circumference to keep them from spinning. Also they are glassed over, this is pain to deal with even when you can get to them...

We've done little more than remove the ends to replace cars. I would be overwhelmed with total replacement.

I have heard though, that Harken has taken old HC SS track and shaped new track and drilled holes to match the original locations.

Bill · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:17 am Post subject:

Glen,

If you have a weekend or perhaps three days, you can replace the genoa track bolts/screws without too much trouble. We have replaced both sides over a period of two weekends.
You will find that there are both 3.5" wood screws and some longer 4- 5" bolts that hold the track down. Ultimately the many of the bolts will be compromised near the heads which will lead you to using a combination of cobalt drills, screw extractors and perhaps some custom centering guides to help you remove the headless bolts. We found about 50% of our bolts (roughly 75% of the total fasteners holding the track. The other 25% are wood screws) were either damaged before we tried to remove them, or on removal. This is the most time consuming portion of the replacement.
We chose not to try to re-use the existing "glassed in" nuts for the bolts, and instead drilled oversized holes (1/2") filled with West Epoxy and filler to create a more robust bond. I can detail further if needed.
It helps to have a second person around when you are re-assembling the track as the mixing of epoxy, filling holes, adding the track and inserting bolts goes very quickly.

warmrain · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:24 am Post subject:

Bill,

Yes, this is the sort of advice I was hoping to see posted. Tell me, do you then drill and tap the epoxy and use machine screws?

Bill · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:

Steve,

The machine screws are actually inserted directly into the uncured epoxy. Please note that when I say machine screws there are actually a combination of machine and wood screws. You should note where wood screws came out as the depth of material in these locations will not allow the use of the longer machine screws. We replace both types 1 for 1.

The steps we took were.

Drill oversized hole 1/2" shorter than bolts/screws used (I believe we used 1/4 20 X 5") so 1/2" by 4.5"

Use a pilot drill in the bottom of hole just drilled for the remaining 1/2". The pilot hole is to provide some limited grip for the machine screw to bite into while the epoxy cures. You will do the final tightening till the next day.

Prepare machine screw by spraying with a release agent (we used cooking spray (PAM)).

Mix epoxy and filler (High density) using the slow cure hardener.

With Genoa track spacer (the wooden lathe on top of the rail) in place, fill a single hole and trial fit a machine screw to judge how full the remainder should be. Remove the trial bolt and fill as many holes as you think you can work with with the mixed epoxy. This stuff cures fast in the confined holes, so be sure you have extra hands.

Immediately replace the genoa track making sure to not cover the first or last holes (these are for the genoa track stops). Have your partner begin inserting bolts and wiping away any excess epoxy. Using a hand screwdriver, carefully tighten until the track is just held down to the genoa track spacer. Continue to move until all bolts are down.

Return the next morning and finish tightening bolts. Replace Cars, go sailing with confidence.

warmrain · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:04 am Post subject:

Thanks Bill,

That answers all the rest of my questions!

Best, Steve

Moon Shadow · Guest

You guys are great! Bill, thanks for all the detail. I will follow your advice.
Glen

moon_shadow · Cabinboy Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 31

Well I'm committed. I've removed the old tracks and have just been informed that my new tracks are in. I have new Harken tracks undrilled so that I can drill the holes to match the existing bolt pattern. I've also ordered all new cars and ends as well as a stationary car as a lead for the main winches. I will follow the directions as posted and let you know how the install goes.
Any last minute advice?
Glen

moon_shadow · Cabinboy Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 31

Good news!
I followed the instruction and now have all new Harken tracks and hardware. Looks great!
Thanks for all the good information. I followed the directions and found it all went together very well.
I ordered the new tracks as blanks and drilled them so that the holes were offset 1" from the original. I drilled the old holes out to get rid of any rotted wood material and filled them with epoxy using foam pluds to keep the liquid epoxy in. I did not use the wood spacer but I did use a sealer between the wood and the track.
Thanks again.
Glen